Avot275

Today's shiur is joyfully dedicated
with deep gratitude to the Almighty
in celebration of the birthday of my dear brother
Aryeh Baruch (Tony) Roth
on which he becomes an 'elder' (see Avot 5:21).
Ad Me'ah ve-Esrim in health and happiness.

1:
The 'Rabbi' who is the author of our present mishnah is, of course, Rabbi Yehudah, the President of the Sanhedrin and the compiler of the Mishnah. His main teaching in Tractate Avot (and his biography) was presented at the beginning of Chapter Two [see Avot 082 and the following shiurim].

2:
As I wrote in the previous shiur, I am reasonably certain that in our present chapter the juxtaposition of the teachings of Elisha ben-Avuyah, that of Rabbi Yosé ben-Yehudah and now that of Rabbi is an editorial decision. Just as the teaching of Rabbi Yosé in the previous mishnah might be considered to be a comment (and disagreement) with the teaching of Elisha ben-Avuyah, so what Rabbi says in our present mishnah may be seen as a comment on the previous teaching (and maybe both previous teachings).

3:
Rabbi's teaching is simple: never be taken in by the packaging but always check the contents. Rabbi Yosé bar-Yehudah had said that it was best to learn from an elder, a sage. Rabbi says that it is quite possible that a younger person may have within him the best 'wine' – that he has learned well from others; conversely, it is quite possible that even an elderly sage, who may appear to be wise and learned, does in fact have within him 'sour wine'. (And this may be a reference to Elisha ben-Avuyah, who was a respected rabbi before his defection to the Sadducees – if that was indeed the nature of his apostasy.)

Gideon Weisz has sent me what he calls 'a couple of small comments about your discussion of Elisha'. I believe that he does them an injustice, because they are most relevant. Gideon's first comment is concerned with a story which was referred to in paragraph 23 in Avot 271.

I was surprised that you had him riding on a donkey, since it is actually a horse, in both versions. And, the horse represents arrogance very nicely, including even towards Rabbi Meir, who is walking along with him. His being on his "high horse" is therefore even more charged than a simple (universally understood) Sabbath violation. This arrogance is central in the well founded thesis of Yehuda Liebes (his book, Het'o shel elisha) about arrogance being the crux of Elisha's "sin" or failing.

I comment:

Gideon is quite right: it was a horse! I was quoting from memory, always a dangerous endeavour.

In paragraph 21 of the same shiur we discussed the meeting of Elisha and the prostitute. Gideon writes:

Similarly, in the story about the prostitute, there is a mix of halakhic violation with an additional charge, expressed in a literary way. What he pulls from the garden plot is not simply any vegetable, but rather a pugla, a radish, which, like the Arabic fujla (colloquial fijel), which sounds like and probably shares its etymology with piggul (making a sacrifice unfit, etc.), where the root pe gimmel lamed indicates fouling, spoiling, rendering unclean (see Klein's dictionary). I imagine that the sharp smell of radishes when spoiled got them that name, but, in any case, it looks as though Elisha expressed the idea that he was unfit or divinely rejected in other places as well, and certainly that's the message I get from this story.

I comment:

I find both these ideas very interesting. I do not think that either of them vitiates my own thinking that Elisha became a Sadducee; indeed, in many ways these ideas bolster my conclusion.

Also in connection with Elisha ben-Avuyah, Jim Feldman writes in connection with my thinking that Elisha defected to the Sadducees:

Having read both [the novel by Milton] Steinberg and [Avot 272 by Simchah] Roth, I might prefer Roth because of the shock and fascination with what it implies in the political realm. Can it be that going from the left to the right (modern and inappropriate phraseology) within the Jewish faith could be seen as apostasy? I knew that there was much antagonism between Pharisee and Sadducee but that it reached the current level of Shiite and Sunni is fascinating.

I comment:

Apostasy? Of course! You only have to examine the published thoughts of certain Orthodox circles concerning Progressive rabbis today.

Because of personal commitments the next shiur in this series will be, God willing, on Tuesday, 12th June.