Berakhot 148

3:
In rabbinic times, it would seem, there was a living tradition as to the exact place where certain miracles, recounted in the Bible, occurred. For example, if today we knew the exact spot where the Crossing of the Red Sea took places, then upon visiting that spot we would be expected to recite the berakhah stipulated in our mishnah. The Gemara [Berakhot 54a] gives some rather "interesting" examples of such places – which give me the impression more of a tourist guides "spiel" than historical fact! (I wonder whether there were organized tours to these sites?) Apart from the site of the crossing of the Red Sea that I have already mentioned, the following places (among others) are referred to:

• the place of the crossing of the Jordan under Joshua;
• the hailstones of Bet Ĥoron;
• the stone with which Og, king of Bashan, threatened Israel;
• the stone on which Moses sat during the war against Amalek;
• the pillar of salt that was once Lot's wife;

The crossing of the Jordan under Joshua is described in the book that bears his name, Chapter 4. The falling of stones in Bet Ĥoron is recounted in the same book, Chapter 10; I can give no reference for the stone with which the gigantic Og of Bashan is reputed to have threatened Israel with because it is not in the biblical record at all, only in rabbinic Aggadah; Moses' stone is referred to in Exodus 17; Lot's wife appears in Genesis 19. The inclusion of this last item in the list leads me to suspect that we have here a list of "historical curiosities" rather than "a place where miracles occurred for Israel": what connection does Lot's wife have with this subject?

To be continued.

The discussion on 'Amen' is still with us. In our last shiur I mentioned that one should answer 'Amen' to all berakhot that one hears (except, by custom, the berakhah that separates the liturgy of the Shema from the Amidah. Richard Friedman now adds:-

May I suggest that you address the question of saying "baruch hu u'varuch shmo"? It is commonplace to hear congregants making this response to all brachot in the service, and to kiddush. My understanding, confirmed by the Shulchan Arukh, is that one should not normally make this response to the brachot around Sh'ma or to kiddush. The reason is that it is considered a hefsek, an interruption. Thus, if I am davening ma'ariv with a congregation, saying "baruch hu u'varuch shmo" when the hazzan intones the hatima (closing bracha of a paragraph) would be a hefsek to my own davening, and I may not do that. Likewise, when I am listening to my wife (or my host) say kiddush, and I am relying on her/him to motzi me (to have her/his recitation be operative for me), adding "baruch hu u'varuch shmo" would interrupt the bracha and prevent it from having that effect.

I respond:

The Gemara [Berakhot 35b] tells us that the work of a Tzaddik is done for him by others – so today I must be a Tzaddik, since Richard has done most of the work for me! Let me try to encapsulate. The response barukh hu u-varukh shemo is a doxology to be added by "bystanders" when hearing someone else reciting a berakhah. If you wish to be yotzé on the berakhah you are hearing (that is, if you wish to respond to it 'Amen' and have it considered as if you, too, had recited the berakhah) – then you must not respond barukh hu u-varukh shemo, because, as Richard says, this is considered an interruption, if you are not a "bystander" but a "principal". This would most certainly be so in the case of Kiddush if one had no intention of reciting it oneself; it is the case with lishmo'a kol shofar on Rosh Hashanah, with al mikra megillah on Purim, le-hadlik ner shel Ĥanukah and so forth.

Art Kamlet has an interesting comment/question on 'Amen':

Something that has troubled me is that the Torah contains 'Amen' in two places: the curses [in Deuteronomy 27 – SR] and the woman's reply during the sotah ceremony [Numbers 5:22], another answer to a curse. In neither example is amen said to a blessing, but rather to a curse. Rashi also appears troubled by this, and concluded that amen was also said in response to the blessings, but has anyone an answer to why the Torah shows amen only in reply to curses?